Monday, June 04, 2007

Clampett- Porky's Snooze Reel- MAN animation

I would never recommend animating even semi-realistic men in cartoons, because it's so damn hard to do and it seldom amounts to anything entertaining.Here is a scene from a Clampett cartoon that has a "realistic" man in it and for some reason I find it hilarious.
Just because it's such a wrong thing to do and Clampett did it anyway and made the animator move the head in every impossible angle.
Human heads just do not look very appealing from every angle, but they sure are funny.
This scene really demonstrates the difference between the Warner Bros. cartoon entertainment philosophy and Disney's.
The characters in Disney cartoons are very idealized- realistic man type characters are either good or evil, "comedy characters" are grumpy or they have drippy noses or they are stylized fruitcakes.
The men in Disney cartoons are not anybody you can relate to and they don't act at all like actual men.
This guy is like an actual guy. He looks like someone you can sit down and have a smoke with, watch Ultimate Fighting and tell dirty jokes.

He is a regular guy with sleaze written all over him, like all us guys. It's not hard to imagine a guy like this being a Dad. Foghorn Leghorn would be a good Dad too. He'll slip you a small glass of beer when Mom's not looking.

LOOK AT MAN.


Here's a typical Disney man to compare with.
He's made up of animation principles instead of flesh, blood and guts.
Warner Bros. cartoons are street-wise. They look at life with a realistic point of view. They take the same animation principles and use them to make fun of the real world.
For Disney, it seems just having the principles is enough. The cartoons don't reflect any acute observations of humanity.
Who do you think would be more laughs to hang out with, this guy or the Clampett man?
Look at thing.


2 ways to animate acting and lip synch
While you are making comparisons, look at the 2 different approaches to drawing lip-synch. The Disney animation seems to completely ignore the dialogue track and rely on formula squash and stretch.

Some cartoon men that probably wouldn't be much fun to hang around with





35 comments:

Jeff Read said...

Hey John!

You must hang around with a lot of MEN to know that much about them.

We think it's pretty weird, this hangin' around with a MAN business.

lastangelman said...

Was Ripping Friends your attempt to animate "real men" as cartoons (as opposed to what Cal Arts grads, Don Bluth followers, et alia, did and still does)? I remember you soliciting for people to come work for you on the project on Spumco and Realcartoons website.

C. A. M. Thompson said...

I expected that Disney guy to sound different than he did in the clip. He looks like a typical stupid character who would say "duh..." before every line.

Chnkypntbttr said...

Hahahewedggskjh that Clampett Man cracks me up.

Jim Rockford said...

The Clampett guy gets my vote of course!
The Disney man (Casey Jones)is the flip side of the coin,you cant relate to him because he's too far removed from reality and one dimensional.
The Warner bros characters were all in on the joke with us,they acted like they had been around the block before and lived in a slightly more twisted world of our own exaggerated human actions and emotions.
they were sarcastic and sly and crass,and motivated by their own self interests just like real people.
I didnt understand the attraction to the Disney cartoons even as a kid,they are all for the most part fogetable,I cant remember ever laughing at them.

Eddie Fitzgerald said...

Wow! A really fun and useful post! Thanks for putting it up!

The lip sync was off on the Disney clip and it doesn't look like they put their best animators or layout people on the scenes but I don't think it demonstrates that human animation sucks. The Clampett guy was great!

Paul B said...

JOHN!! your blog is falling apart!!!!

JohnK said...

Freddie Moore and Milt Kahl are the animator credits. I think Freddie designed the character.

Brian B said...

I can't believe you didn't use the phrase "manimation." It does have something specific and sleazy about it. The disney man's appealing too though.

In the actual clips though, his actions aren't very funny, the synch is definitely off and uneffective. Clampett's, well, his is just plain funny.

Kelly Toon said...

Mr. K, Sir, you probably have already heard this, but your blog still has the bad upa-style examples on the right of the screen :( I am using safari and have refreshed the screen several times . . . do you know if there is something I could do to make the page look right again?

also, clampett man is amazing.

Mr. Semaj said...

I think Wendy's dad is supposed to be the type you don't wanna hang out with.

At least in this instance, the only reason Disney's guy, Casey Jones, is unrelatable is because the cartoon you got it from was narrated by Jerry Colonna. The character was probably built more around Colonna's narration than any individual agenda.

I think Johnny Appleseed would be one of Disney's better examples of guys you can relate to. It was narrated by Dennis Day, but the characters show a little more individuality than Casey Jones. I happen to know a guy who reminds me of Johnny's angel.

Katie Rose said...

is the second man down on the "Men that would not be so much fun to hang out with" from the Disney cartoon "Hooked Bear"? I have a memory of watching that as a kid and getting sincerely pissed off at what a grade a tool box he was. Seeing the pictures made the memory suddenly flood back to me ha.

AWD! said...

You got a point there.

Ardy said...

I remember seeing an episode of Cartoon Alley a few weeks ago that played "Porky's Snooze Reel." I noticed it was directed by Clampett and someone I had never heard of. Do you know anything about that guy?

PCUnfunny said...

The Clampett one was pure,manly sleave.He's kind of guy that if you bump into him on the street, you'll notice your wallet will be gone.The other Disney thing I can't characterize because it's just flailing.

David Nethery said...

"Mr. K, Sir, you probably have already heard this, but your blog still has the bad upa-style examples on the right of the screen :( "


UPA ruined John's blog, too ! (those fruity bastards)

stiff said...

This isn't related to the animation as much as the subject matter of the "manimation," as brian put it (although the lip sync on the Disney is pretty horrible), but from a historical perspective, I find it interesting that the Feds had to invest money in convincing people to pay an income tax.

Just sayin'.

Raff said...

>> I would never recommend animating even semi-realistic men in cartoons, because it's so damn hard to do and it seldom amounts to anything entertaining. <<

Well what about THIS?

JohnK said...

Well that was pretty good animation, but man, those character designs!

Seems like a heck of a lot of work for not much fun...

Raff said...

>> man, those character designs! <<

I think it's the eyes. Real beady and square and cold.

Jack Snider said...

If you watch the whole Disney cartoon you'll see the narration is a seperate voice from the main character and isn't supposed to sync. The main character only pantomimes through the whole thing. It does become awkward here as the two clumsily overlap.

I prefer Warners cartoons myself also. I think Milt Kahl, Loundsberry and Marc Davis did their best work when they were doing broad characters.

Mr. Semaj said...

is the second man down on the "Men that would not be so much fun to hang out with" from the Disney cartoon "Hooked Bear"? I have a memory of watching that as a kid and getting sincerely pissed off at what a grade a tool box he was. Seeing the pictures made the memory suddenly flood back to me ha.

That would be Ranger J. Audubon Woodlore. :D

peldma3 said...

Different tastes for different folks, every style has a few great artists, and then there is a whole glut of crap below! I think that applies to this post , anybody could easily take some bad old Ren & stimpy stuff and point out the flaws... To me this post seems like you took some crummy stuff and put it up.. It's too easy, theres tons of crummy stuff... I think the focus is better served if we do what they did with great cartoony animation. .. We forget about the shitty stuff altogether.

Brian said...

Those Disney characters wouldn't be fun to hang out with but Pecos Bill would be!

Part one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1DllyzfVX4

Part two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF4xgwbSsV0

The music and narration is great in that cartoon as well.

It's just a shame Disney digitally took the cigarette out of his mouth.

Brian B said...

Btw, who did the design/animation on the Clampett clip?

Wutatool said...

"anybody could easily take some bad old Ren & stimpy stuff and point out the flaws... To me this post seems like you took some crummy stuff and put it up.. It's too easy, theres tons of crummy stuff..."

the point is not 'fuck you disney' the point is not to do specific bad thing. the point is to learn something. it doesnt matter who made the examples if they illustrate his valid point.

Eddie Fitzgerald said...

I'll bet the the ranger character is based on a famous Hungarian character actor that you see in a lot of Capra movies. I think his nickname was "Bubbles."

Jim Rockford said...

"It's just a shame Disney digitally took the cigarette out of his mouth"



Disney!,what a bunch of politcally correct bastards!
I remember an old Goofy cartoon from the 50's that stood out to me for its adult content.The whole episode dealt with Goofy trying to quit smoking,he became desperate for a drag and finally tried bumming one off a guy,he used the slang word "fag" when requesting a cigarette.Disney censored that in a hurry....come to think of it,I remember a donald duck cartoon that had pygmy's in it and that also disapeared too?

Jim Rockford said...

When I think back on it,it seems as far as Disney goes the 50's Goofy cartoons were probably the most interesting ones Disney made.
They at one point seemed to use Goofy as sort of an "everyman" or John.Q.Public.
I remember seeing one cartoon that dealt with motorists as a kid,where everytime Goofy got behind the wheel of a car he changing into a wildman,spout off and yelling at the other drivers,and running over pedestrians.thats pretty much how real life is!

Michael said...

Hello John,

I'm sorry to contact you like this, but I've not been able to track down an email address for you and I figure you can just not approve this comment. I am currently a PhD candidate in the Media Studies programme within the Faculty of Information and Media Studies at The University of Western Ontario in London, Ontario, Canada. I am in the process of conducting research on Flash animation for a conference paper as well as my dissertation and was wondering if you might be available for a brief interview either by phone or email (whichever is easier for you). I would like to ask you about your opinion about the use of Flash in television animation (especially in comparison to traditional animation) and your experiences with the software, starting with your initial work on The Goddamn George Liquor Program.

I know you probably get requests like this all of the time, but any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated. You can contact me via email at mdaubs@uwo.ca.

Cheers,

Michael Daubs

cartoon lad said...

Hi John,

Do you think if Bob Clampett ever did a feature film what do you think it would be like?

really fast paced and zany like his short cartoons? or somehow different to accomadate the longer running time?

Do you know if Bob ever wanted to do a cartoon feature?

I.D.R.C. said...

Well that was pretty good animation, but man, those character designs!

I smell a rotoscope on at least half of it.

I'll bet the the ranger character is based on a famous Hungarian character actor that you see in a lot of Capra movies. I think his nickname was "Bubbles."

Probably "Cuddles" Sackall, but he was in the Warner's stable.

James Sugrue said...

The tax guy from the clampett cartoon looks like my dad!

cemenTIMental said...

Hehe the Clampett guy is really funny and weird looking!

Re: 'realistic' humans, Kon's "Tokyo Godfathers" has some great and hilarious cartoony & specific acting... Would be interested to hear what you think of it, if you've seen?

Can't find a specific clip but the whole movie's up on youtube in segments.

(...why do people even do that anyway!?)

Dan Heyer said...

Bob's dude was great, the character design was so that the guy's flexibility, following the first key, was unanticipatable - all that from only from the shoulders up!